Taken from an Andrew S Beckers translation.
Socrates: Can you tell me what justice is or is it worthwhile discussing?
Friend: It’s very worthwhile.
Soc: What is the just then?
F: Whatever is established by custom?
Soc: Come on man, that’s not the way to answer. If you asked me what an eye is I would tell you it is what we see with; and if you demand that I prove it then I would have the courage to prove it. And if you asked me what the mind is I would tell you that it is what we think with. So in this same way tell me what the just is by referring to how we use it.
F: I cannot answer.
Soc: Ok how about using this method. When we want to distinguish what is longer and what is shorter, what do we use?
F: A measuring stick.
Soc: Cool. And besides the measuring stick, what skill do we use?
F: Skill in measuring.
Soc: Yep, and what do we use to distinguish what is light and what is heavy?
F: We use a scale.
Soc: Yes and besides the scale what skill do we use?
F: Skill in weighing.
Soc: Ok. So when we want to determine what is just and unjust what instrument do we use and what skill do we use?
F: Dude, I don’t know.
Soc: Ok, let’s start again. When we disagree about what is larger and what is smaller who do we go to in order to settle the argument?
F: The guy who measures things since he has the measuring stick and the skill to use the measuring stick to come up with the right answer that we will agree on.
Soc: Yes, and who do we go to when we disagree about number, about many and few?
F: The guy who can count will settle our disagreement.
Soc: So now when we disagree about what is just and unjust who do we go to to settle the argument?
F: We go to a judge.
Socrates: Well done! So tell me, what are the measurers doing when they decide what’s large and what’s small?
F: They are in the act of measuring.
Soc: And when weighers decide on what is heavy and what is light, what do they do?
F: They weigh.
Soc: And when the counters decide on the many and few what are they doing?
F: They are counting.
Soc: So when judges decide on what is just and unjust what are they doing?
F: They are speaking.
Soc: Then is it by speaking that they decide between us who is just and unjust?
F: Yes
Soc: And recall that it was by measuring that the measurers decide what is small and what is large, using both the measuring stick and their skill in measuring, right.
F: Right.
Soc: Again, recall that it was by counting that the counters decided what is many and what is few, using both counting and the their skill in counting, right.
F: Right.
Soc: And we just said a moment ago that it’s by speaking that judges decide between us about what is just and what is unjust since it was with speech that these things are decided.
F: Yes.
Soc: What could the just and unjust possibly be?
F: I still cannot say.
Soc: Do you think people do injustice willingly or unwillingly? Or another way to put it, do you think people act unjustly and are unjust willingly or unwillingly.
F: Willingly since they are wicked.
Soc: So do you think people are wicked and unjust willingly?
F: Definitely, yes, for sure! Don’t you?
Soc: No, at least not if we are to trust the one of the singers.
F: What singer?
Soc: The one who said “No one is willingly wicked”
F: But singers often don’t tell the truth.
Soc: I would be surprised if the singer lied about this, but let’s see if they are lying or telling the truth.
F: Ok.
Soc: So which do you think is just, lying or telling the truth?
F: Telling the truth obviously.
Soc: Lying then is unjust?
F: Yes
Soc: And which do you think is just, deceiving or not deceiving?
F: Not deceiving
Soc: So deceiving is unjust?
F: Yes.
Soc: And which is just, harming or helping?
F: Helping.
Soc: So harming is unjust?
F: Yes!
Soc: So telling the truth, not deceiving and helping are just but lying, harming and deceiving are unjust.
F: Yes by God, definitely.
Soc: Then is harming enemies just and helping them unjust?
F: Yes.
Soc: And isn’t harming enemies just even if you deceive them?
F: I guess.
Soc: What about lying to deceive your enemies, is this just?
F: Yes.
Soc: And didn’t you say that helping friends is just?
F: Yes.
Soc: By not deceiving and lying to them or by deceiving or lying to them if it’s for their own benefit?
F: Yes
Soc: So it seems that both lying and telling the truth are just and unjust.
F: Yes
Soc: And deceiving and not deceiving are just and unjust.
F: I guess so.
Soc: And both harming and helping are both just and unjust.
F: Yes.
Socrates: So all sorts of things are both just and unjust.
F: So it seems to me.
Socrates: So listen up, I have a right and left eye just like everyone.
F: Yes.
Socrates: And a right and left hand?
F: Yes
Soc: Although you call these by the same name you say some are right and some are left and if I asked you which is which wouldn’t you be able to say that these on this side are right and these on this side are left?
F: Yes.
Soc: So let’s go back and although you call those acts by the same name, you say some are just and some are unjust. Can you say which are just and which are unjust?
F: Well I suppose that each of these acts turns out to be just if and when we should do them but unjust if we should not do them.
Soc: Good for you! So does the person do justice when he does each of these acts when he should do them, and does the person do injustice when the person does them when he should not?
F: Yes
Soc: And isn’t he himself just when he does just things and he himself unjust when he does unjust things?
F: That’s right.
Soc: So who can perform surgery and reduce fever and swelling if and when he should?
F: A doctor.
Soc: Because he knows how?
F: Yes.
Soc: Who can cultivate, plough and plant when he should?
F: The farmer.
Soc: Because he knows how?
F: Yes, because he has this knowledge.
Soc: Isn’t this the case for other situations as well? The one who knows how can do what he should, if and when he should but the one who doesn’t know how cannot do things correctly.
F: Yes
Soc: And what about lying, deceiving and giving help? Can the one who knows how do each of these acts when he should and at the right time, but the one who doesn’t know how can’t?
F: Right
Soc: But the person who does them at the right time and situation is just?
F: Yes.
Soc: And he does them because he has knowledge of what is just?
F: Yes.
Soc: So a just person is just because he has just knowledge?
F: Yes
Soc: Is not the unjust person unjust because of a lack of knowledge?
F: Yes.
Soc: And the just person is just because of his wisdom?
F: Yes
Soc: The unjust person is unjust then because of his ignorance.
F: Yes.
Soc: So it looks like justice is what our ancestors handed down to us as wisdom and injustice is what they handed down to us as ignorance.
F: Yes
Soc: Are people ignorant willingly or unwillingly?
F: Unwillingly.
Soc: So they are also unjust unwillingly?
F: Yes
Soc: Are unjust people wicked?
F: Yes
Soc: So they are wicked and unjust unwillingly?
F: Absolutely
Soc: And they act unjustly because they are unjust?
F: Yes.
Soc: And, unwillingly?
F: Of course.
Soc: Clearly what is done willingly is not done unwillingly?
F: It could not.
Soc: And acting unjustly comes about because there is injustice.
F: Yes.
Soc: And injustice is unwilled?
F: Yes
Soc: Then they act unjustly and are unjust and wicked unwillingly.
F: Yes.
Soc: So the singer didn’t lie?
F: No.
Transition: Based on Plato`s Republic at 335d:
Imagine a week later Socrates meets his friend again and his friend says,
“I am still having a hard time with what you said about it being just to do harm to someone like an enemy, can you help?
Soc: I fear that I may have erred through my ignorance of the logic, so let me tell you what I think about this.
F: Ok.
Soc: When a man is harmed does he become worse off?
F: Yes.
Soc: Would not this man become more unjust from this harm, knowing that he will want to do harm to you which is the opposite of being a good person?
F: Yes
Soc: Well are musicians able to make men unmusical by music?
F: Impossible.
Soc: Are men skilled in horsemanship able to make men incompetent riders by horsemanship?
F: That cannot be.
Soc: But are just men able to make others unjust by justice, of all things? Or are good men able to make other men bad by doing good to them?
F: Impossible.
Soc: For I suppose that cooling is not the work of heat but of its opposite?
F: Yes.
Soc: Nor wetting the work of dryness but of its opposite.
F: Yes.
Soc: Nor is harming, in fact, the work of the good but of its opposite.
F: Yes.
Soc: And it’s the just man who is good?
F: Certainly
Soc: Then it is not the work of the just man to harm either a friend or anyone else but of his opposite, the unjust man.
F: I agree.
Soc: Then if someone asserts that it’s just to harm his enemies he was not wise when he spoke for he was not telling the truth since it has become apparent that it is never just to harm anyone.
